Like Dm, I really loved hearing Jayce's point of view!

This is what's great about the umd. Honest opinions and conversations that make you stop and think.

Big love xx

Jayce, can I suggest running a contest based on this post? Like, a free video for the first person who successfully guesses how many guys PMed you offering to be in one of your videos, immediately after reading the first paragraph of your post above (and not reading the first)?

I'm guessing at least 215.

i sincerely could not even begin to count how many emails i am responding to....that i think are customs when the conversation completely switches to "well i will come and model for you" urm.....and i LOVE IT when they EVEN GO AS FAR as to ask me how much i will pay them for it when i have not even responded to it. lol. if i cant even hardly afford to produce my own content...what in gods green earth makes you think im gonna have a stranger come over, and me do a messy video with them (that is typically very sexual in nature) the first time i meet them? i thought we were talking about a custom you wanted! lol. but alas, i dont get mad...i just say, "hey, yeah, if you want to do a session, i am totally down for that, you pay your own way, you pay us, you want us to film it and keep it to sell? okie dokie, ill give you a small discount but um....yeah we dont do the sex or rub on your pee pee and you dont do that to us either....soooooo all that talk about me masturbating is out the window"

and the thing is, i live in a college town. i have been in contact with TONS of HOT college dudes about wetlook videos. it is concerning though...for a few reasons....the main ones being that A. even if they sign a non disclosure agreement, that doesnt matter for shit when these college frat boys get drunk B. i am a woman who is filming, producing, editing and doing all my own content. I have seen men that are "not into" wam or wetlook get very much aroused doing it with me...so, if i were to do a video WITH said model....okay, arousal may happen but boundaries are very important and here is the other thing...im typically alone shooting this stuff. that makes for me to feel very uncomfortable. I hate to feel that way. i want to feel like an empowered woman who runs this shit and you are getting paid and then off you go....
but alas, it is a concern. One that I feel like is going to be a touch and go situation. C. for me to bring in someone while i film this stuff, so that i can feel safe, i can be professional and not have any accusations brought against ME means MORE PEOPLE who are invited into my lifestyle. it just piles up. more agreements signed that could be broken....and yes, i have had one of my male models break the non disclosure agreement here recently and i just dropped a fucking retainer fee for this shit. its no joke.
and us ladies, i am including ariel on this, do this on our own. we have had a few boyfriends in the past to help us film but typically we arent happy with their work. I have about 2 camera guys i have hired where i am very happy with their camera work. I am insanely picky. i hate tripods but i have to use them sometimes and i am so picky about the way they look.
Being women running our own stuff, it is concerning, even though i have this BEAUTIFUL PICK of endless college guys who are just DYING to wear their suits and jeans and stuff in a shower for pay....but, I have to find a way to be cool enough where they feel comfortable but not too cool where they think im giving them a "vibe" bc as beautiful as they are, i am a professional, man. when it comes to someone i dont know. working with someone i have had relations with in the past, and i know very well and i am sexually comfortable with? its a different story. I feel like if i bring these men in, unless i work with one that comes in a lot, shows that they CAN be professional, we get to know eachother and i feel comfortable enough, i could possibly do a fully clothed, non sexual, just erotic hairwashing maybe a little erotic touching of stuff above the waist, you know? but i would have to really gain trust and have someone there to witness on my behalf that i did not cross any boundaries and neither did they.
otherwise, i feel like if i take this route, all men are doing solo videos and i am behind the camera to start. That still leaves me with "should i have another person here while i film or just pepper spray and keep the camera rolling the entire time they are here for my own personal protection?" like i said, touch and go. i would def. fire someone, on the spot if any gross comments were made towards me before, during or after filming.
This is why i have not started this venture YET because there is SO MUCH to consider. The main thing...as a woman, am i going to be taken SERIOUSLY by these guys to where they will respect me, my wishes and do the job they are asked to do? What do I NEED TO DO to make sure they are comfortable with ME and that I am not putting off any sort of vibe whatsoever to make them uncomfortable without looking like a frigid bitch? its a tough gig but one that i would really like to get off the ground!
you getting paid doesnt mean you are getting laid.

and regis, GOD, you always know the way to a womans heart. lol XD

and yall, please let me reiterate what i said above. i can barely pay for my own productions and sales do not pay the bills so, if you are wanting to be a model in a video for us, that would be 'you getting a session and we would give you a small discount to let us film it and sell it'

i also dont think that guys think this through that they have to sign a paper that gives us full rights to the video adn even if they paid us to take it down...i cant help if it gets all over the internet. im not gonna share it everywhere but other people might bc other people are dicks. so, welcome to my life if you wanna go that route!

wow that was entirely too long...i just saw my lawyer this morning so im kinda just like whoaaaaa. i think i just typed a lot in some kind of businessy haze bc i have been talking business with her all morning. bluhhhhhhh.....

Agree with DM, Lisa etc. As usual, Jayce supplies a fascinating, thought-provoking post.

No, because it's a 2000 year old book made up of even older myths cobbled together from a time when telling people there's an omini-present being watching was good way to get them to behave.

However, it's now 2017 and we have a sophisticated society with educations systems based on rational thinking and science.

The question to ask is if it's a perversion that is either personally or sociological damaging. If not, then carry on. If not, take some personal responsibility and stop.

If you need a bible to give you an answer then you're not thinking for yourself and that's going to fuck up your head in the long term because you're not as rigid as one persons interpretation of one piece of text and will never conform to it, no matter how hard you try.

Well Noise...I believe you're making too much noise! But I forgive ya (I guess) , and as a Christian Deacon, I respectfully disagree with your error in deductive reasoning. Now I don't want to get into a Biblical debate with ya in this setting, but I don't believe that Bible stories are myths. So I believe you are MYTHstaken my friend. Surely...even a person like yourself, believes there's always an underlying truth, even in myths. Right? WAM is my personal "Cross To Bear". I believe comedy sploshing is not a sin. But, however...when it becomes sexual, certain God ordained moral laws, come into place. God is holy, sovereign, & a supreme moral authority. WHAT!?!...an erudite guy like you may say. Please don't tell me that you believe all creation is just happenstance? SHEESH! I think maybe you're the one who's not thinking clearly my ol' atheist friend. I believe, Jesus died for our sins. All of our sins! Except for one. And I believe sploshing was always my destiny. It's who I am. Because why didn't God stop my enjoyment messy slapstick comedy, way back in my childhood; when I was an innocent boy? Because how could I ever foresee, that sploshing, would become a sexual problem, once I reached puberty, & it became sexual. I accept my messy fate. I am the Captain of my messy soul. ICH BIN EIN WAMMER (I Am A WAMMER)! Peace. And remember kids: ALWAYS-KEEP-LAUGHING!!! WHOA NELLY!!!

And I thought Bozo 1 was the problem. My Enemy Still Lives!

dear god i need you in this podunk town to explain this to every fucking parent i come in contact with and i am honest about my job....you would think i set dogs on fire. i swear to god.....

hey man, i believe in God....i still do wam. i dont have to answer to anyone about that...you dont have to, noise doesnt have to. its where we see ourselves and where we are spiritually or if we even WANT to be anywhere spiritually. that is the awesome thing about free will. i applaud both of you for speaking your minds, though. i think its a hard thing to do, especially on here where ppl can be total dick noses and instead of just reading something you say, and maybe adding an opinion, they can be totally rude about how you feel. bravo to you both for being cool and still being able to voice opinions

The thread is about producers soliciting models for sex.

Do you believe in God, yeah? Me too, that's great. This isn't the place to evangelize
Do you like science and critical thinking, me too! This is a fetish forum.

I believe we can both agree that this both a sin (from Bozo's perspective) and a not so classy thing to do (from Noise's perspective)

.... or, a vicarious turn-on (from Regis's perspective)!

Only got "lucky" as you say one time, back in 1981 when I did my earliest wam videos.....and 37 years later I am still married to the same girl. All the hundreds of wam shoots I have done since then my wife has mostly been on the set to keep her eye on me and assist the models with makeup and wardrobe.

She puts bromide in my tea and carries a big stick to make sure everything is kept under control.

Thanks Jayce! You're very fair in your assessment. Even though 'Noise' is absolutely...WRONG! But I respect his opinion. Even though I don't agree with him. Thanks everybody! People took my religious WAM venting, much better than I thought. I wasn't so much trying to evangelize you all, as I was just getting something of great concern, off my chest. Professional Producers (with an emphasis on PROFESSIONAL), probably shouldn't get it on with their models. But I understand the challenging temptation. I've succumbed to it myself (to a certain extent). Okay...I'm OUT! And BTW...'Noise' didn't reply. So once again, I Win! YAY!!! Humble Bozo.

My history of "exploits" is somewhat uncommon. Back in the olden days, I was a fairly fit & skinny musician/sound engineer with shoulder-length hair. This was very handy in the 80s when everyone in the rock game was wearing spandex and sporting big poofy hair. I honestly put almost ZERO effort into hooking up back then. Hot sweaty girls pretty much just threw themselves at us. All day and night. Every day and night. It seemed like the natural result of simply being male and having a pulse, and I enjoyed the hell out of it for a couple of decades. (this was back before sex could kill you)

Unfortunately, my stupid, young brain decided that this was the way things were and this was how it always would be, so I never really developed any "hitting on" skills like the rest of the guys in my generation. I've usually just waited for women to make the first move. Sadly, as I have aged and retired out of the music industry, those moves have become fewer and farther between.

As a self-employed computer programmer and operator of Vidown/TheMothership, the pool of women I regularly interact with is pretty much limited to models and producers these days. Due to lacking the guy-skills, I have never "hit on" any of them in terms like "hey, wanna have sex for free?" Since I run a bunch of websites like wamfinger.com , fingerme.com , toywithme.tv , wambang.com , and itouchmyself.tv that mostly revolve around penetrative sex acts, both solo and involving at least some of my body parts, I guess you could say that I "get it on" with a lot of my models, but all of it is professional, paid-for contract work with signed model releases. On a few occasions, that has led to some off-screen dalliances, but it has always been with the girls I have known for years, and it was typically their idea. What I've learned over the years is that if you can make a girl breath hard and tremble like a junkie needing a fix using just your fingers, they sometimes think you might be good at "other stuff" as well

The whole business of adult entertainment has changed dramatically in the last decade too. I don't think it has ever been common in the WAM production world, but in porn/fetish of years past, rampant sex with everyone on set was pretty much business as usual. I regularly have dinner with a former major porn star who is now producing fetish stuff, and we were discussing the whole thing last month. She seemed kind of confused about the whole current movement and stated flat out "that's just how it all worked back then. I probably blew and fucked more producers and cameramen than actual on-screen talent"

I think it's pretty inappropriate to ask as you're in the middle of a business transaction (assuming they are a model and not an escort).

That said, I don't see anything wrong with it at all if THEY bring it up.

Several of my models "suggested" or "hinted" at a possible sexual hook-up (probably to see my reaction)....but I never took the bait (professional ethics)...so, they never pressed it further....my most "famous" model actually try to convince me to make a porno with her (I was just getting used to the idea of making a short, clothed, wam video; I was not at all ready to go beyond this into the realm of out-right pornography,despite the legendary benefits that accrue to porno directors)...

So, I never had sex with any of the models that appear in my wam/slapstick videos.

That said, I have had 'relations" with a few models (I worked with on other projects), with one (that I still think about often) that was more of a super-crush (mutual) that never got fully consummated (she was just 18, I was 28), but who I helped become a (Ford) model...she went on to be a very recognized runway model for nearly every major designer on the planet...all of which she gave up to become a doctor (the modeling money paid for her med school education)...very proud of her.

To me it is completely inappropriate. However, off the job what two consenting adults do is up to them. You have to keep personal and professional separate. I love what Jayce said about boundaries. Getting those established is exactly what needs to happen. I am pretty sure there are some people in Hollywood that wished they had discussed boundaries before things went too far. There is a fine line in this line of business between work/pleasure. Be careful with it. I would hate for someone in the fetish community to have any assault or harassment accusations.

And the great question,
Q - when is it harassment?
A - When the other person thinks it is. They don't even have to say it.

Hi Lisa, I've been a fan/member for years. Have you always enjoyed WAM?. I'm sure some of your models may like WAM a bit more than you realise...Especially when you look at other producers comments. I can see how the fun side is an attraction but just because of the type of work it is you've got to want to do it! Keep up the good work!.

For people in the adult industry full time it's pretty normal to date within the industry. I know a few couples who are now married who meet from working together. It's hard trying to date "normal" people when you work in the adult industry because most people outside the industry IME get put off or jealous when they find out what I do for work. Even if you're someone who just does non-sexual fetish stuff a lot of people just don't want to bring a fetish model and/or producer home to meet their parents.

Yes it's creepy if you're hitting on someone who is in a relationship or has made zero indication that they are into you. There are ways to do it without being creepy and unprofessional. In the past I have had a few producers offer to take buy me dinner after a shoot and I wasn't into it so I just said no thanks. I still worked with them later because they were respectful and didn't do anything to make our work relationship weird.

Personally I briefly hooked up with a producer who I had know for years and it was not suggested by him and certainly not during a shoot. It ended a little awkwardly (because I'm awkward) but we are now friends. The one model I dated I only asked out after we had worked together a few times and then he told me he needed to take a break from being on film. I agonized other the ethics of weather or not it was ok for me to ask him out since I didn't want to feel like I was putting someone in a position where they had to say "yes" to me to keep getting paid by me, but then once he told me he couldn't work for me anyone I didn't see it as such a problem.

Aww, that's sweet, but you didn't specify the scale...

One to four

I can see how that would go down...

I guess it can work with normies if their parents are complete assholes and they have nothing to do with them.

How's this for not so classy then... Save your fucking lecture for someone who cares or just take it to a less open forum. Either way...

Right? I have no issue with people having their beliefs for the most part. It's just the ones that want to ram it down your throat or want to judge others based on their own fantasy of what society is and how it works.

When I say for the most part, I mean up until the point they try and dictate their "moral code" onto others.

Here's something to think about. Why didn't he stop the kids walking into schools and shooting other kids? Why didn't stop a kid dying from cancer? Why do you think you're the centre of the universe and God would care if he existed?

I thought the concept of free will was a pretty basic tenet of religion. I mean, Adam and Eve pretty much set that tone. Then Jesus dying for sins and all of that.


I wouldn't agree that there's an underlying blah blah blah because science and critical thinking. You're basing everything you say on something unprovable, therefore nothing you say about it has any basis in fact.

If you choose to do something mate, you choose. It's on you. Either make peace with it or stop because you believe its wrong.


I'm going to stop answering now because I've been down that road. I can't help you as a random person on a forum beyond a few exchanges that might make you think. Good luck figuring out and letting you be you.

Yeah, that's accurate. I was told once, "I couldn't marry someone that does what you do," which was essentially, "If you want to marry me then at some point you'll have to change profession."

That relationship didn't make it to that stage though for other reasons, so I have nothing more to report. I didn't have issues, but I wouldn't go as far to say others wouldn't. I tended to date then marry more liberal thinking people.


Have you considered acquiring an English accent?


Uh, what does bromide taste like? Asking for a me.

Thank you.

Glad you like our work

I think people want to read more into it. Our girls are just happy they've found some casual work, that's fairly fun and social, that pays very well.
The girls enjoy being infront of the camera more than the mess I'd say.

I'm not a wam fan per say.. I find it fun. It's a huge part of my life now. It can be sexy, but that's more to do with who I'm slipping and sliding around with
Or who's watching my performance
So rolling around in a bath of custard, not likely to turn me on. Rolling around in a bath of custard imagining being with or actually being with my man is.

Sorry if I'm being blunt. It's just always been really important to us to be very truthful on this matter, so wam fans looking for relationships look for a genuine connection, not just a wam connection.

LisaMoomin

That is quite the truth. Whenever I see someone asking how to meet a girl into WAM it seems very narrowing and unrealistic. Figuring out how to bring it up in a relationship is a far more useful discussion to have.

The reality is, and I'm not preaching to you here Lisa, you're smarter than I am and may be able to expand on it from a female point of view...

... Relationships are give and take. That's the bottom line. And the longer the relationship, the more important that becomes. When it comes to sex, compatibility usually only goes so far. But, naturally both partners want to please each other and, this is the important bit, get turned on by pleasing their partner.

Quilifier: This applies to gay relationships as well as well as women, but I'm going to be hetero-male-normative because that's my main experience and aim at the guys because that's the main audience.



Guys, that doesn't mean your partner is going to end up orgasming at every pie in her face, but, it means there's a chance she's not going to outright refuse. Of course, people are people and it might be a turn off depending on life experience and perspectives or just hating the idea of messing up hair.

The point is, as long as its presented about being about the other person, making sure they know they're the turn on, not the pie or whatever, then chances are they will either put up with it, find it interesting because you do, find it a bit of a turn on because it turns you on, or just go for it because they figure out a way in which it works for them.

Presentation is everything.

At the far end, I know a girl who's man is into it and she admitted that she knows that the smell of baked crust and Kool Whip means things are going to get sexy, and reacts to it positively, almost by conditioning. Conditioning is the wrong word, but I'm having trouble finding a better one. To the point she found herself making pies for her man to throw at her without him suggesting it and not as a particular special treat - she was just in the mood.


Now, that's not going to be normal. But it's indicative of how things can play out if presented right and respect being shown. If she's not into it and will do once in a blue moon, be patient and respect the fact she's willing to do something crazy and, to her mind, quite humiliating for you.


To bring this back on topic... I doubt any producer based relationship, whether one-night stand or whatever, was based on the fetish. As Lisa said, that's not why models show up, even though it can be a fun and/or gratifying experience in some kind of non-sexual manner.

That was smooth transition back on-topic, right, right?

PotatoMan: this thread is NOT AT ALL about producers "soliciting" models for sex --- do you understand what that means? It means the producers are prostitutes. Golly jeeze...I m beginning to regret opening this thread...